Kato Hidejin (Director of NazeKoi, BAN MV) interview from BRODY June 2021
The theme is birdman
Q Kato-san, what impression do you have of the group from Keyakizaka46 time?
Kato: I was completely unfamiliar with the group. My only impression was “Kouhaku Uta Gassen”. They are “just another idol” like Nogizaka46. It was like I was just looking at one of many.
Q And since then the group has been renamed to Sakurazaka46, and you were assigned to record “Naze Koi wo Shitekonakattan darou?” that is included in the 1st Single. Did you study about the group?
Kato: Actually, during NazeKoi I was thinking of doing a thorough research, but Kamiji (Koretaka)-san who was in charge of camera work in Keyakizaka46’s Documentary Movie, NazeKoi, and BAN told me, “It’s better for you not to know''. I guess he thought that if I knew too much, it might turn into Keyakizaka46.
So I basically received two major elements that are “cool” and “individual vs group”, and thought about putting out my own colors. Up until then, I had been praised for the visual aspects of the worldview, the way women are shot, and how images are developed without becoming boring, so I thought that it would be better to simply just show beautiful parts and face it that way.
After the MV was released, it became a hot topic among fans that the sound of the bell at the beginning of NazeKoi might be the sound of the bell from “Dare ga Sono Kane wo Narasu no ka?”. It’s completely wrong (laughs). It made me a little curious and when I watched the video, Kobayashi Yui-san showed a stunning performance. I felt, “What the heck is this group!? So I worked with such an amazing group?” and come to realization.
Q So that is what happened (laughs)
Kato: After that I searched for related YouTube videos, and on the next day I spent the time watching videos of Keyakizaka46 and completely fell into it. I didn’t know if I would get another offer, but I decided to thoroughly learn about each person in order to make the girls bloom as Sakurazaka46, and spent several months researching all of them. That’s why I guess “BAN” was produced with me already having knowledge of Keyakizaka46. I wasn’t conscious of Keyakizaka46, but by facing it in mind, I can deeply explore how to make them shine attractively. BAN was the result of that.
Q When BAN’s MV was released on YouTube, Kato-san published your comments to Twitter, didn’t you? I felt moved when I read that, “This person made this while thinking so much about Sakurazaka46, as well as Keyakizaka46, in his mind!”
Kato: I was really worried whether I should publish it on release date because it would hinder everyone’s impression, but I decided to do it because I thought it would be better to tell the fans. Because I wanted Sakurazaka to be “Hope”, and I thought that it would be better to put it into words and throw it toward the fans, so that they could watch it with even the slightest positive emotion.
Q We are returning to NazeKoi, as the filming with Center Fujiyoshi Karin has come to pass, what kind of conversation did you have with her?
Kato: When she received the lyrics, she said that she couldn’t take it in easily, so we talked about the worldview for about an hour. Half of it is her conveying what she thought, and the other half is me encouraging her (laughs). In any case I think that what is the most important is the production to show her true ability. Instead of imposing my own worldview, I wanted to get rid of their anxiety so I wanted to make what they think is the correct answer. But even after discussing for over an hour, she was still like “Hm….”. I was worried that if the Center is worried that much, then the “individual” won’t shine in the “individual vs group” concept, but when I came to film on the next day, it was well done. When I took Fujiyoshi-san’s expression from the scene where she looked up at the beginning, she could completely change the atmosphere within a meter radius. I thought that she’s a very talented person.
Q After the first work, you are asked to handle the title song MV as your second work. This time the Center is Morita Hikaru-san, so I think that the way of presentation it has changed again, but based on your previous work, how did you think about the work this time?
Kato: Before listening to the song, I’ve been thinking that it’s better to know about which direction the group is going towards after the 1st single, even before the offer came to me. And among them, there are a few girls who, in an interview, said “I want to (do live performances) overseas”. Even though there are still many people who feel frustrated with not being able to switch their feelings from Keyakizaka46 to Sakurazaka46, the girls are already looking so far ahead. I want to visualize them as they try to move forward with that hope, and the first theme I made was actually “bird”. I wrote “bird person”, so a “birdman”. There was a vague theme that is showing them flying like birds, giving hope to someone and saving them.
By drawing such a theme, I thought that I could show a hope that could save both the fans who cannot forget Keyakizaka46 and the fans who have switched feelings to Sakurazaka46. And then to find hope from despair. Since the time Keyakizaka debuted in 2016, the rise of social media has revealed something that is like imperfections in the world. I think that Keyakizaka46 served as the presence that rang the alarm. But now, on the contrary, everyone is ringing the alarm too much. Amidst that, COVID attacked. So I thought that what everyone wants to see now is the feeling of hope and positive feelings that lie ahead. I thought that ray of lights in darkness would suit the time, and did BAN that way.
Q I think that the filming location also becomes important to draw that world-view.
Kato: I talked about how nice it would be to have a place where you can feel the sky, but at first no place came to mind. Something must be missed, right? So I did my own research, and I found a place named Awaji Yumebutai that was designed by Ando Tadao. What I look for in Sakurazaka46 is sophisticated beauty, which when you compare it to architecture it would be Ando Tadao’s. Actually, I wanted to do the same in NazeKoi.
Q So it was like that. Were the costumes and location all made to match?
Kato: Rather than that, because the theme has become “bird”, “hope”, and “saving someone”, when the project was in its initial stage, I told the costume designer Takenouchi Remi-san, “I want you to take this direction”. In the first, black costume, the upper right white part is showing the power to save someone. That costume is pleated, isn’t it? That’s supposed to be a bird's feather. And in D melody, there’s a part where everyone is like pa-pa-pa, pa-pa-pa like this, right?* That represents fluttering the wings. Everyone begins to spread their wings for someone. Then, Morita-san stands up and flies. This is actually what I wanted to do the most, but it wasn’t noticed that much (wry smile). Takahiro-sensei said it too, but where in NazeKoi it’s someone saving the many, in BAN I want it to be composed of everyone saving one person. [T/N: We believe this can be found around 03:13 in the MV]
The second costume is a bird. It has a white base, but it’s colorful like a bird. Sakurazaka46’s theme is the color of white that can be dyed in any color, so while they are usually white, when they open their skirts they become colorful birds. In NazeKoi there is a dance where they turn into a flower, but this time I want to show birds. Then I looked up what is a “bird dance”, and I found the serpentine dance. I conveyed that I want to do this and asked Takahiro-sensei to arrange it in a contemporary style.
Flying cherry blossoms
Q What else did you talk about in terms of dance production with Takahiro-sensei?
Kato: It’s quite detailed, so let’s talk about overall first. I told him that when it comes to birds, then it has to be a serpentine dance, but while looking at the storyboard we are talking about things like “Let’s move like this here, and this is the meaning”. Like how they spread in a circle, how they dance while splashing water, that is exactly that.
In the theme of standing up and confronting any situation, in a sense the water has become something that stood in their way. The girls are making use of the feathers of their costumes to make what obstructs them look beautiful instead. That is in the theme of turning adversity into opportunity. I feel that the spirit of this MV might be how the dance has all the meaning, visuals, and strength, and this is just talking about the last chorus.
Q The reverse playback at the opening had a huge impact. While the cherry blossom petals are fluttering, the members moved in reverse and rise up
Kato: But they are not actually fluttering. The meaning behind the reverse playback is soar. When the cherry blossoms bloom, all they do is fall, right? But if you play it in reverse, then they’ll soar up. Both the cherry blossom petals and the members of Sakurazaka46 are revived by the reverse playback. That’s why the members who stood back up are shaped like a cherry blossom tree.
And from there they spread as if breaking from an egg. I wanted to show something that shows the strength of breaking the egg shell, so I asked Takahiro-sensei to make it look like kung fu. Then, as the song progresses, everyone freezes as if they are suddenly BANned. The members who were walking stopped too. Morita-san is the only one moving like the star of hope, and flies off. Because of that, everyone starts dancing. That is the flow of the first part.
Q In the second part, the dance scene that uses an uncountable number of lights after the chorus is impressive
Kato: We used 150 lights there, but when I think about it now, they look like a camera flash, don't they? Like a story that continues from Keyakizaka46 to Sakurazaka46, this is expressing the attention that the girls are receiving. It is, after all, different between NazeKoi and BAN. They both are conscious about the “individual vs group” concept, but while NazeKoi is a group seen from an individual, BAN is an individual seen from a group.
That’s why, for example, during the A melody of the 2nd part, there are members protecting someone and also Morita-san who is dancing alone. The members who are protecting are shot more subjectively, while Morita-san who is dancing is taken in a screen composition that is a bit away. My hope is that Morita-san can be seen by the general public this time. But you see, NazeKoi is the opposite. From the overwhelming feeling of an individual who cannot see their surroundings, to the group seen by an individual.
Q I see
Kato: The serpentine dance also appeared at the end of the second chorus. I want to see them doing this in a live performance. This is Remi-san’s idea, but actually the skirt has a ring on it, and they can use this ring to dance without grasping the hem of the skirt. The members on the right side would use the right ring, and the members on the left side would use the left ring, making them symmetrical. It looks like a big wing of a bird.
Q And at the last chorus there is the dance scene in the water. The power here is amazing.
Kato: The members said that their clothes that are totally soaked in water might weigh 2kg (laughs). It looked heavy from the outside as well. Moreover it was quite cold because it was filmed mid-winter. Actually, at the start, I didn't plan to add water. It was originally already a place filled with water, so I was thinking of draining it, but I was commissioned to make a MV that makes the dance shine, so I decided to leave the water to show the dynamicness [of the dance].
Also, I think that what makes women attractive is that they show some gaps and imperfections. For example, idols are supposed to be perfect, right? They have costume staff and make-up artists, even their bangs are well made. But that can’t be done if they are wet. I thought it would be good to make them wet with water in order to show such attractive expressions and such imperfections. And the other reason is Morita-san. I felt that Morita-san had been wearing thick armor since the time of the 1st single. I wanted to take it off, so I talked with her for about 1 hour. In any case, I wanted her to dive deep within herself. When I think about what is best to undress her armor, I realize that it’s ruining her bangs.
Q Because she’s very particular about it, right?
Kato: So much to the point that she grades them, so I want to ruin them. At first I was thinking of doing it with makeup. But after talking with Morita-san for a long time for the first time, I couldn’t say that. I wanted her to perform in the situation where she doesn’t have anything particular in mind, so I thought that not being concerned about her bands would be better, and the result I come up with is to ruin her bangs by performing in water. Though I thought it would have been great if her bangs didn’t get ruined, and I personally think that we are able to see a glimpse of a new Morita-san at the end.
To spin a story
Q Other than Morita-san, are there any other members who left an impression?
Kato: 1st generation members are, after all, feel steady. I already know since NazeKoi that Kobayashi-san and (Watanabe) Risa-san are how you distinguish strong women and beautiful women, but this time I wanted to make it visible. I said that for Kobayashi-san, I did it by shooting her from the chin to above, while for Risa-san I wanted it to be with her looking down. About Koike (Minami)-san, she looked very weak, but I think that it’s precisely because of that she is good at expressing herself and making facial expressions. Actually, when I still had no clue during NazeKoi, I thought that it was Kobayashi-san and Koike-san who were leading the performance in this group. That is how much expression was conveyed from Koike-san’s performance.
Also, for me, I think that Sugai (Yuuka)-san is the MVP this time. Her strong expressions are also wonderful, but in the final water scene, the running-along-the-coast-with-girlfriend vibe appeared in her expression and the way water dripped from her was really wonderful (laughs).
Q What about the 2nd generation?
Kato: I feel that Inoue (Rina)-san wasn’t able to show everything in NazeKoi, including her facial expressions and dancing. However this time, when we talked before the filming, I conveyed it to her truthfully and said, “It’s not good as it is, just give it your all, don’t worry about failing.”. Once the filming actually started, she was completely different. Yamasaki (Ten)-san didn’t need any direction at all. She’s still 15 years old, but I think that she’s good at creating and coming up with something herself instead of being told by someone. That’s why I told her to do it freely.
As for Fujiyoshi-san, I told her to aim for an expression and smile a level higher, and as for Tamura Hono-san I felt a slight sense of motherhood in her, so I gave her a hint to go in the direction of gentle aura or motherhood-like. I told each 1st generation and 2nd generation advice as we started filming, but I thought that overall, 2nd generation members have truly become stronger.
Q It’s big that after becoming Sakurazaka, 2nd generation members are able to finally show their existence. Then, what do you expect from Sakurazaka from now on?
Kato: Yesterday, I wrote a report about Sakurazaka46 (laughs). Such as what elements should be left in and what elements should be let out. After all, it’s the story. Smiles and expressions come from there. About “individual vs group = society and the protagonist”, I think that Keyakizaka might have depicted despair in that context. But I want Sakurazaka46 to be a presence who finds hope in that. I think that is probably why NazeKoi is so well received. The MV is largely affected by the charm of Fujiyoshi-san’s facial expressions, but it still has a story, and I think that’s why you can find positive emotions and hope in it.
Q In that sense, I think it will be important to depict the story of growth in the future.
Kato: But it can’t be taken slowly. After all, idols is a business related to popularity. If you don’t give an answer quickly, before anyone realizes, the popularity is already lost. The image of Keyakizaka46 that could be seen so clearly is now hazy. Sakurazaka46 is in the process of shaping these hazy images one by one, and will continue to do so… While I think it would be great if we could create something new that is good every time, it’s difficult to do it consistently, so I think that it’s better to shape it as soon as possible. I don’t know how the fans are perceiving it right now.
Q That’s true.
Kato: It might be great to be able to give an answer within this current year. Keyakizaka46 also tested ABC from “Silent Majority”, “Sekai ni wa Ai Shika Inai”, and “Futari Saison”, and their direction was set from “Fukyouwaon”. That’s why I think that Sakurazaka46 will have to come up with something they can say “This is it!” in one or two more works. Morita-san has a very interesting way of thinking, in which she said that Sakurazaka46 is Keyakizaka46 in a parallel world.
In Sakurazaka46, Morita-san centered songs are where the existence of Keyakizaka46’s “Boku (I)” continues as it is. Fujiyoshi-san centered songs are the ones where they ran toward love, while Yamasaki-san centered songs are the ones where “Boku (I)” evolved and ran toward their friends. The world-view where the “Boku (I)” is split into three parallel worlds has now been made. That sure makes you curious about what will happen after the 3rd single from now on, don’t you think?
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